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	<title>Comments on: Another Anti-Laowai Hate crime</title>
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	<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/another-anti-laowai-hate-crime/</link>
	<description>Chinese, Linguistics, Science, Cultural Observations and whatever else I feel like writing about</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/another-anti-laowai-hate-crime/#comment-1729</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=185#comment-1729</guid>
		<description>I think maybe the key misunderstanding is that you are using a different definition of racism than many of us are.  Here is dictionary.com's &lt;a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism" rel="nofollow"&gt;definition of racism&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
   2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It seems that you are restricting your definition to #1, whereas nearly everything I've brought up has been a case of #2.  Actually, in my experience, people who &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; feel they are superior don't often show overt signs of racism.  I've found it much worse from those with a "middle-ority" complex.  It often manifests in an "I may be a poor, ugly or unsucessful, but at least I'm better than those &#60;insert racial stereotype&#62; bastards." kind of attitude.



P.S. At least one Korean-Canadian got to stay in the complex.  It was defitely a skin-color thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think maybe the key misunderstanding is that you are using a different definition of racism than many of us are.  Here is dictionary.com&#8217;s <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism" rel="nofollow">definition of racism</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.<br />
   2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
</p></blockquote>
<p>It seems that you are restricting your definition to #1, whereas nearly everything I&#8217;ve brought up has been a case of #2.  Actually, in my experience, people who <i>really</i> feel they are superior don&#8217;t often show overt signs of racism.  I&#8217;ve found it much worse from those with a &#8220;middle-ority&#8221; complex.  It often manifests in an &#8220;I may be a poor, ugly or unsucessful, but at least I&#8217;m better than those &lt;insert racial stereotype&gt; bastards.&#8221; kind of attitude.</p>
<p>P.S. At least one Korean-Canadian got to stay in the complex.  It was defitely a skin-color thing.</p>
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		<title>By: OnABCs</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/another-anti-laowai-hate-crime/#comment-1725</link>
		<dc:creator>OnABCs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=185#comment-1725</guid>
		<description>Excuse me, you're misrepresenting.

I did not say there is no prejudice against white people in Taiwan.  Let's note differences between prejudice and racism too, since racism was the original topic from before.

Again, many Taiwanese people are actually racist against blacks, Africans, and Southeast Asians (including Vietnam and Thailand).  They are generally reverse racist when it comes to whites, which means they think whites are superior to East Asians.

Now, using the term racism in this defined way, meaning something that has to do with a sense of superiority or inferiority, instead of just throwing it around as a catch-all phrase, how does this apply to the incident of violence that I agree should be condemned?

I agree that it's a product of stereotyping, discrimination, or prejudice plus violence.  Many Taiwanese hear bad stories about white guys and Taiwanese women, some of which are true, some of which are false, some of which are exagerrated.  They saw this girl Feli's friend and assumed he was one of those kinds of guys.  In the next step, they then tried to use violence to try to "right" what they saw as a "wrong".

Let's see what I really think here, contrary to your assumptions:

a) They tried to group Feli's friend in with other bad apples.  That was their first mistake.
b) They then tried to use violence to try to "fix" the wrong.  This was their second mistake.
c) Many white guys come to Taiwan, as they do to many places in East Asia, to try to sleep with East Asian women.  They do this because reverse racism benefits them here and chumps in the US or elsewhere are champs in Taiwan.  This happens a lot.  I am not saying everyone.  But it happens a hell of a lot.  

I think it's unfortunate, as you might have guessed, and unlike Mr. Turton, I think it's an unfortunate product of reverse racism, rather than some kind of actually superiority of white guys in Taiwan, as I think he's hinting at when he says "sexual jealousy" .  The acting like a scumbag part of it, I would attribute it also partly to the local girls having little reliable information about the male's network and people going abroad and thinking they can do whatever they want a ll of a sudden (this part applies to all foreigner's obviously, not just white's).

Repeating a) and b), none of what I just said justifies getting beat up like Feli's friend.  Again, I condemn it, and if I had information on who it was, I would report it to the cops, if it would do anything.


As a side note regarding the apartment.  I suggested that if the others were all Taiwanese-Somethings (American/Canadian/etc) whatever, you can't automatically chalk it up to discrimination because of the gazillion family relationship/friend of a friend/friend of the family ties that are possible.  It absolutely isn't proof just to say the ones that stayed were Taiwanse-Somethings but the whites got kicked out.  That was the information I had when I made that argument before you then, IIRC, said one of the ones that got to stay was not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me, you&#8217;re misrepresenting.</p>
<p>I did not say there is no prejudice against white people in Taiwan.  Let&#8217;s note differences between prejudice and racism too, since racism was the original topic from before.</p>
<p>Again, many Taiwanese people are actually racist against blacks, Africans, and Southeast Asians (including Vietnam and Thailand).  They are generally reverse racist when it comes to whites, which means they think whites are superior to East Asians.</p>
<p>Now, using the term racism in this defined way, meaning something that has to do with a sense of superiority or inferiority, instead of just throwing it around as a catch-all phrase, how does this apply to the incident of violence that I agree should be condemned?</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s a product of stereotyping, discrimination, or prejudice plus violence.  Many Taiwanese hear bad stories about white guys and Taiwanese women, some of which are true, some of which are false, some of which are exagerrated.  They saw this girl Feli&#8217;s friend and assumed he was one of those kinds of guys.  In the next step, they then tried to use violence to try to &#8220;right&#8221; what they saw as a &#8220;wrong&#8221;.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see what I really think here, contrary to your assumptions:</p>
<p>a) They tried to group Feli&#8217;s friend in with other bad apples.  That was their first mistake.<br />
b) They then tried to use violence to try to &#8220;fix&#8221; the wrong.  This was their second mistake.<br />
c) Many white guys come to Taiwan, as they do to many places in East Asia, to try to sleep with East Asian women.  They do this because reverse racism benefits them here and chumps in the US or elsewhere are champs in Taiwan.  This happens a lot.  I am not saying everyone.  But it happens a hell of a lot.  </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s unfortunate, as you might have guessed, and unlike Mr. Turton, I think it&#8217;s an unfortunate product of reverse racism, rather than some kind of actually superiority of white guys in Taiwan, as I think he&#8217;s hinting at when he says &#8220;sexual jealousy&#8221; .  The acting like a scumbag part of it, I would attribute it also partly to the local girls having little reliable information about the male&#8217;s network and people going abroad and thinking they can do whatever they want a ll of a sudden (this part applies to all foreigner&#8217;s obviously, not just white&#8217;s).</p>
<p>Repeating a) and b), none of what I just said justifies getting beat up like Feli&#8217;s friend.  Again, I condemn it, and if I had information on who it was, I would report it to the cops, if it would do anything.</p>
<p>As a side note regarding the apartment.  I suggested that if the others were all Taiwanese-Somethings (American/Canadian/etc) whatever, you can&#8217;t automatically chalk it up to discrimination because of the gazillion family relationship/friend of a friend/friend of the family ties that are possible.  It absolutely isn&#8217;t proof just to say the ones that stayed were Taiwanse-Somethings but the whites got kicked out.  That was the information I had when I made that argument before you then, IIRC, said one of the ones that got to stay was not.</p>
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