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	<title>Comments on: Non-racist Recruiting</title>
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	<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/</link>
	<description>Chinese, Linguistics, Science, Cultural Observations and whatever else I feel like writing about</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-34896</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-34896</guid>
		<description>Oh, one more thing. Is there a place where people who've had these experiences can get information of what companies and schools do and don't consider what minority groups? It seems like it would be practical and save a lot of hurt feelings and offended dignity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, one more thing. Is there a place where people who&#8217;ve had these experiences can get information of what companies and schools do and don&#8217;t consider what minority groups? It seems like it would be practical and save a lot of hurt feelings and offended dignity.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-34895</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-34895</guid>
		<description>My, what a lot of controversy. I think it's rather admirable that your boss is willing to be open-minded in his hiring practices. Relative to the general policies of the cram schools, that's on the liberal, progressive side. It strikes me as unfair to blast the poor man for not having yet "proven" his nonracist policies, and to scream hypocrisy and victimization because he wants a North American accent and hasn't yet, alas, recruited an African-American or person of African descent. 

The tone of this debate gets very personal and biased, and that's very understandable. But viciously lambasting so-called "Chinese ignorance" is not entirely fair. First of all, there is a wide range of belief and opinion among the people of Taiwan. It's as easy to say that American society is RACIST, against blacks and Hispanics and Asians and Arabs, as to wholly define Chinese society as racist. It is also ignorant to declare that the prejudices being encountered are MAKING you "hate." There's a certain amount of free agency here, and it's not impossible to be the bigger person and get over it. 

Secondly, there is a justifiable uncertainty as to the fluency in English of persons not obviously of "foreign" descent. Buxibans as a business are not bound by the same policies of equal hiring practices, which by and large don't really exist in Taiwan, largely due to the primarily homogenous population. It's not a public education, it's a business. Abercrombie and Fitch won't hire Asians or persons of color because their image is clean-cut white folk. Can I then assume that America is RACIST and the country is lousy?

My overall point, I suppose, is that in discussing this, the rhetoric gets overblown and overly personal. This is a societal issue, not a chip on a shoulder because of a lost job opportunity. Crying victimization isn't effective, especially if we're going to trash on persons like Ron who are at least making a bit of effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My, what a lot of controversy. I think it&#8217;s rather admirable that your boss is willing to be open-minded in his hiring practices. Relative to the general policies of the cram schools, that&#8217;s on the liberal, progressive side. It strikes me as unfair to blast the poor man for not having yet &#8220;proven&#8221; his nonracist policies, and to scream hypocrisy and victimization because he wants a North American accent and hasn&#8217;t yet, alas, recruited an African-American or person of African descent. </p>
<p>The tone of this debate gets very personal and biased, and that&#8217;s very understandable. But viciously lambasting so-called &#8220;Chinese ignorance&#8221; is not entirely fair. First of all, there is a wide range of belief and opinion among the people of Taiwan. It&#8217;s as easy to say that American society is RACIST, against blacks and Hispanics and Asians and Arabs, as to wholly define Chinese society as racist. It is also ignorant to declare that the prejudices being encountered are MAKING you &#8220;hate.&#8221; There&#8217;s a certain amount of free agency here, and it&#8217;s not impossible to be the bigger person and get over it. </p>
<p>Secondly, there is a justifiable uncertainty as to the fluency in English of persons not obviously of &#8220;foreign&#8221; descent. Buxibans as a business are not bound by the same policies of equal hiring practices, which by and large don&#8217;t really exist in Taiwan, largely due to the primarily homogenous population. It&#8217;s not a public education, it&#8217;s a business. Abercrombie and Fitch won&#8217;t hire Asians or persons of color because their image is clean-cut white folk. Can I then assume that America is RACIST and the country is lousy?</p>
<p>My overall point, I suppose, is that in discussing this, the rhetoric gets overblown and overly personal. This is a societal issue, not a chip on a shoulder because of a lost job opportunity. Crying victimization isn&#8217;t effective, especially if we&#8217;re going to trash on persons like Ron who are at least making a bit of effort.</p>
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		<title>By: range</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-22439</link>
		<dc:creator>range</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 01:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-22439</guid>
		<description>I'm Canadian. My parents are Indian. I came with the warnings that it would be harder for me here for jobs and tutoring. 

It gets annoying sometimes, but I have no problems finding the jobs I want and the students I want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m Canadian. My parents are Indian. I came with the warnings that it would be harder for me here for jobs and tutoring. </p>
<p>It gets annoying sometimes, but I have no problems finding the jobs I want and the students I want.</p>
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		<title>By: Rene'</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-6350</link>
		<dc:creator>Rene'</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-6350</guid>
		<description>I'm very disappointed to read so many racist comments about racial profiling in Taiwan.  I had hope to seek employment as an English teacher who is very much African American and proud to be "black".  However, I have to ask myself do I really want to visit a country that prejudge people based on others who continually undermind people of color in order to stay superior or so they think.  My purpose for seeking employment is to enhance cultural awareness and to observe and learning from a different culture. In the hopes of writing a book or multicultural curriculum that would facilitate the learning of my students here in Texas.  In teaching, you encounter students who have many needs,wants, and desires so you strive to educate and cultivate these learners so they can be prepared for real world issues, but how do I help them with issues such as the ones you have presented here or I'm I thinking about "Utopia" my students are African Americans and Latinos they already have enough to deal with in this country (U.S.A.) why should I travel over 6,000 miles to receive more of the same? I guess to dispel some of the racist comments that all "Blacks'" steal, kill, are uneducated, lazy,and violent which is not true.  I ask what race has not done these things? and why is it that I work to teach my students to appreciate and embrace cultural differences only to read or be told that I'm in "Utopia" this is ludicrous as an educator and a doctoral student I'm compelled to create positive social change for all students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very disappointed to read so many racist comments about racial profiling in Taiwan.  I had hope to seek employment as an English teacher who is very much African American and proud to be &#8220;black&#8221;.  However, I have to ask myself do I really want to visit a country that prejudge people based on others who continually undermind people of color in order to stay superior or so they think.  My purpose for seeking employment is to enhance cultural awareness and to observe and learning from a different culture. In the hopes of writing a book or multicultural curriculum that would facilitate the learning of my students here in Texas.  In teaching, you encounter students who have many needs,wants, and desires so you strive to educate and cultivate these learners so they can be prepared for real world issues, but how do I help them with issues such as the ones you have presented here or I&#8217;m I thinking about &#8220;Utopia&#8221; my students are African Americans and Latinos they already have enough to deal with in this country (U.S.A.) why should I travel over 6,000 miles to receive more of the same? I guess to dispel some of the racist comments that all &#8220;Blacks&#8217;&#8221; steal, kill, are uneducated, lazy,and violent which is not true.  I ask what race has not done these things? and why is it that I work to teach my students to appreciate and embrace cultural differences only to read or be told that I&#8217;m in &#8220;Utopia&#8221; this is ludicrous as an educator and a doctoral student I&#8217;m compelled to create positive social change for all students.</p>
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		<title>By: David on Formosa (beta) &#187; English teaching blog round-up</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-6252</link>
		<dc:creator>David on Formosa (beta) &#187; English teaching blog round-up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-6252</guid>
		<description>[...] At Forumosa ImaniOU laments that no matter how well qualified or experienced you are its tough finding a job in Taiwan if you are black. Doubting to shuo further explored the issue in his post on Non-racist Recruiting. I made some comments there about discrimination against people who aren&#8217;t from North America. Doubting to shuo then posted some more comments on this issue: One thing David questioned about my school last week is why my boss is looking for North American teachers as opposed to British, Australian or other native English speakers. I can completely understand how this sort of policy would be annoying to those it excluded, much like the fact that high paying IELTS jobs prefer teachers from the UK or commonwealth countries is frustrating for some Americans. There’s no doubt that the preference of schools skews heavily towards American English. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] At Forumosa ImaniOU laments that no matter how well qualified or experienced you are its tough finding a job in Taiwan if you are black. Doubting to shuo further explored the issue in his post on Non-racist Recruiting. I made some comments there about discrimination against people who aren&#8217;t from North America. Doubting to shuo then posted some more comments on this issue: One thing David questioned about my school last week is why my boss is looking for North American teachers as opposed to British, Australian or other native English speakers. I can completely understand how this sort of policy would be annoying to those it excluded, much like the fact that high paying IELTS jobs prefer teachers from the UK or commonwealth countries is frustrating for some Americans. There’s no doubt that the preference of schools skews heavily towards American English. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-5287</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 04:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-5287</guid>
		<description>Randall, I recently met a very successful Kenyan-Canadian guy who seems to deal with China very well. If you'd like to be put in touch with him, drop me an email. Maybe he can give you another perspective or some advice on how to deal with the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randall, I recently met a very successful Kenyan-Canadian guy who seems to deal with China very well. If you&#8217;d like to be put in touch with him, drop me an email. Maybe he can give you another perspective or some advice on how to deal with the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Randall Fields</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-2448</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall Fields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 02:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-2448</guid>
		<description>I think racism is ridiculous in China. Just a few days ago I was rejected on the account of skin color. I have all the credentials. I am American, have the standard American accent. I graduated from a good school and I have even written a novel. What does that get me? I miss out on job opportunities all the time. 7000 yuan a month for 18 hours a week. I'm missing out on a decent opportunity just because I have melinen in my skin. I tell you China hasn't advanced in anything besides economics if you ask me. It really is teaching me to hate. I don't like hating. There are always complaints about how the Japanese treat Chinese, but what about how the Chinese treat other races. Chinese think that blacks, nomatter where they are from or what they do, that they are lower. The Chinese workplace is Racist and I wish that someone would do something about it because I am really disappointed in this country. And whites are the ones that really benefit from Chinese ignorance. It's a shame. I came here with my mind open and now I am afraid I will leave it more closed than when I got here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think racism is ridiculous in China. Just a few days ago I was rejected on the account of skin color. I have all the credentials. I am American, have the standard American accent. I graduated from a good school and I have even written a novel. What does that get me? I miss out on job opportunities all the time. 7000 yuan a month for 18 hours a week. I&#8217;m missing out on a decent opportunity just because I have melinen in my skin. I tell you China hasn&#8217;t advanced in anything besides economics if you ask me. It really is teaching me to hate. I don&#8217;t like hating. There are always complaints about how the Japanese treat Chinese, but what about how the Chinese treat other races. Chinese think that blacks, nomatter where they are from or what they do, that they are lower. The Chinese workplace is Racist and I wish that someone would do something about it because I am really disappointed in this country. And whites are the ones that really benefit from Chinese ignorance. It&#8217;s a shame. I came here with my mind open and now I am afraid I will leave it more closed than when I got here.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-1278</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-1278</guid>
		<description>David, I think I'm going to make a &lt;a href="/?p=162"&gt;separate post&lt;/a&gt; to talk about the topic of British/American dialects used in the classroom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I think I&#8217;m going to make a <a href="/?p=162">separate post</a> to talk about the topic of British/American dialects used in the classroom.</p>
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		<title>By: David Reid</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-1265</link>
		<dc:creator>David Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-1265</guid>
		<description>Mark thanks for responding to my comments. Whether it is or isn't a form of prjudice might be debatable, but I believe this obsession with North American accents is irrational at the least. 

First, consider the diversity of accents that exists within North American. There are some North American accents that are very non-standard*, just as there are some Irish ones. Would you employ any old North American even if they did have a particularly non-standard accent?

My next point is that if students have trouble understanding the small difference in accent between you and your boss then they are not really learning effective English communication. Once outside the classroom they can expect to encounter English speakers whose accents differ markedly. Another point is that students will often find themselves speaking with other non-native English speakers. Does this narrow focus on accent prepare them at all for this?

Lastly despite the differences between British and American English they share far much more in common. If a school wishes to teach a certain form of English then it is good to be consistent and this is probably reasonably important when teaching children. If a school asked me to teach only American spelling and grammar I would have no problem with that. Although I would expect the school to be aware that I may not be familiar with some of the finer points of American grammar and idiom. 

* Defining standard and non-standard accents is fraught with difficulty. A good test is that the speaker should be easily understood by another native-speaker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark thanks for responding to my comments. Whether it is or isn&#8217;t a form of prjudice might be debatable, but I believe this obsession with North American accents is irrational at the least. </p>
<p>First, consider the diversity of accents that exists within North American. There are some North American accents that are very non-standard*, just as there are some Irish ones. Would you employ any old North American even if they did have a particularly non-standard accent?</p>
<p>My next point is that if students have trouble understanding the small difference in accent between you and your boss then they are not really learning effective English communication. Once outside the classroom they can expect to encounter English speakers whose accents differ markedly. Another point is that students will often find themselves speaking with other non-native English speakers. Does this narrow focus on accent prepare them at all for this?</p>
<p>Lastly despite the differences between British and American English they share far much more in common. If a school wishes to teach a certain form of English then it is good to be consistent and this is probably reasonably important when teaching children. If a school asked me to teach only American spelling and grammar I would have no problem with that. Although I would expect the school to be aware that I may not be familiar with some of the finer points of American grammar and idiom. </p>
<p>* Defining standard and non-standard accents is fraught with difficulty. A good test is that the speaker should be easily understood by another native-speaker.</p>
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		<title>By: OnABCs</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-1264</link>
		<dc:creator>OnABCs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/?p=157#comment-1264</guid>
		<description>You may want to be a little careful on the ABC issue.  There are big cultural differences, as I imagine you probably have understood by now, that ABCs understand even if they don't speak the language.  If they get promoted more quickly it could be a combination of language/cultural capital.  Also, many ABCs have ROC citizenship, which from what your own description, you do not have.  Like American citizenship, it can be inherited, so even if they are born abroad, they have the rights and privileges of a Taiwan-born citizen.

I wonder if you're taking too much of an American view of Taiwan.  Taiwan is not an open society that simply invites any old-person to come to Taiwan.  That is very much an American ideal (which isn't achieved anyways since it's much harder to and has always be much harder for Asians to immigrate to the US).  The real racism in Taiwan is mainly directed at those, that from a world-wide perspective, dominated by Western hegemony for the last hundred years, has put blacks and Asians lower on the social ladder.  From the Taiwanese perspective, blacks are associated either with Africa or from Hollywood movies, the poor or the criminal.  Southeast Asians or Mainland Chinese are then lower on the social scale too because that's where all their labor comes from.  Whites are up because 1) Western countries are generally fairly wealthy and more important, wealthier than the average Taiwanese person 2) that's how Hollywood portrays them.

Think about this--you don't speak the language here well, you don't necessarily have the right background in the culture, you don't have a network of locals here built up from when you were young and by extension through relatives--so purely on the basis of being able to speak English and some technical skills, what makes you a better manager than locals?  Think about how Asian immigrants of a few years are treated in the US.

I think what you want to do is admirable; live in a foreign society that you previously had no connection with, and in a way that is not just at a distance.  You seem to want to learn local language and culture.  Well, I give you props and I hope you are recognized for your merits.  But you have no right and should have no expectation that this will be easy or handed over to you on a silver platter.  It already is fairly easy in comparison to many other places, and in Taiwan, it is unlikely you will experience violence or outright racism if you are white.  This is something non-white immigrants to the US have to think about all the time--if you make the proper comparison, you'll realize that you're really extremely lucky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may want to be a little careful on the ABC issue.  There are big cultural differences, as I imagine you probably have understood by now, that ABCs understand even if they don&#8217;t speak the language.  If they get promoted more quickly it could be a combination of language/cultural capital.  Also, many ABCs have ROC citizenship, which from what your own description, you do not have.  Like American citizenship, it can be inherited, so even if they are born abroad, they have the rights and privileges of a Taiwan-born citizen.</p>
<p>I wonder if you&#8217;re taking too much of an American view of Taiwan.  Taiwan is not an open society that simply invites any old-person to come to Taiwan.  That is very much an American ideal (which isn&#8217;t achieved anyways since it&#8217;s much harder to and has always be much harder for Asians to immigrate to the US).  The real racism in Taiwan is mainly directed at those, that from a world-wide perspective, dominated by Western hegemony for the last hundred years, has put blacks and Asians lower on the social ladder.  From the Taiwanese perspective, blacks are associated either with Africa or from Hollywood movies, the poor or the criminal.  Southeast Asians or Mainland Chinese are then lower on the social scale too because that&#8217;s where all their labor comes from.  Whites are up because 1) Western countries are generally fairly wealthy and more important, wealthier than the average Taiwanese person 2) that&#8217;s how Hollywood portrays them.</p>
<p>Think about this&#8211;you don&#8217;t speak the language here well, you don&#8217;t necessarily have the right background in the culture, you don&#8217;t have a network of locals here built up from when you were young and by extension through relatives&#8211;so purely on the basis of being able to speak English and some technical skills, what makes you a better manager than locals?  Think about how Asian immigrants of a few years are treated in the US.</p>
<p>I think what you want to do is admirable; live in a foreign society that you previously had no connection with, and in a way that is not just at a distance.  You seem to want to learn local language and culture.  Well, I give you props and I hope you are recognized for your merits.  But you have no right and should have no expectation that this will be easy or handed over to you on a silver platter.  It already is fairly easy in comparison to many other places, and in Taiwan, it is unlikely you will experience violence or outright racism if you are white.  This is something non-white immigrants to the US have to think about all the time&#8211;if you make the proper comparison, you&#8217;ll realize that you&#8217;re really extremely lucky.</p>
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