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	<title>Comments on: Aaron Russo and Ron Paul on the Federal Reserve</title>
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	<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/</link>
	<description>Chinese, Linguistics, Science, Cultural Observations and whatever else I feel like writing about</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Prince Roy</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76301</link>
		<dc:creator>Prince Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76301</guid>
		<description>actually no, Congress could not by itself repeal the Bill of Rights.  Two-thirds of each house would have to vote for its repeal, and then legislatures of 3/4 of the states would have to approve.

your point that some people disapprove of the Fed says nothing as to whether it is constitutional, which is the point &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; was raising.  Ron Paul believes it is unconstitutional--he is wrong.

It doesn't matter if the Founding Fathers would have supported the Fed--I can imagine we have many current laws they would not support.  The point is that the Fed was created by Congress in a constitutionally prescribed manner: Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and President Woodrow Wilson signed it into law.

Incidentally, Andrew Jackson (a favorite of yours) vetoed the first central banking system out of existence in 1832.  If Ron Paul becomes president that is pretty much his only option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually no, Congress could not by itself repeal the Bill of Rights.  Two-thirds of each house would have to vote for its repeal, and then legislatures of 3/4 of the states would have to approve.</p>
<p>your point that some people disapprove of the Fed says nothing as to whether it is constitutional, which is the point <i>I</i> was raising.  Ron Paul believes it is unconstitutional&#8211;he is wrong.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter if the Founding Fathers would have supported the Fed&#8211;I can imagine we have many current laws they would not support.  The point is that the Fed was created by Congress in a constitutionally prescribed manner: Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and President Woodrow Wilson signed it into law.</p>
<p>Incidentally, Andrew Jackson (a favorite of yours) vetoed the first central banking system out of existence in 1832.  If Ron Paul becomes president that is pretty much his only option.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76289</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76289</guid>
		<description>Congress can make any rules they want to, as long as they are united in that desire.  They could even repeal the bill of rights if they wanted to.  I'm not sure what your point is.

My point, is that there are many, many respected economists, including Nobel prize winning giants such as Milton Friedman who have &lt;a href="http://www.minneapolisfed.org/pubs/region/92-06/int926.cfm" rel="nofollow"&gt;blamed the Federal Reserve for the Great Depression&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href="http://www.peterjaworski.com/Friedman" rel="nofollow"&gt;support abolishing it&lt;/a&gt;.   Another important point, which Friedman himself pointed out, is that a large fraction of all of the economists who work full time on monetary research are employed by the Federal Reserve.

I also sincerely doubt the framers of the constitution supported anything remotely like the Federal Reserve.  I'm interested in getting my hands on as much reading material about the topic as I can, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congress can make any rules they want to, as long as they are united in that desire.  They could even repeal the bill of rights if they wanted to.  I&#8217;m not sure what your point is.</p>
<p>My point, is that there are many, many respected economists, including Nobel prize winning giants such as Milton Friedman who have <a href="http://www.minneapolisfed.org/pubs/region/92-06/int926.cfm" rel="nofollow">blamed the Federal Reserve for the Great Depression</a>, and <a href="http://www.peterjaworski.com/Friedman" rel="nofollow">support abolishing it</a>.   Another important point, which Friedman himself pointed out, is that a large fraction of all of the economists who work full time on monetary research are employed by the Federal Reserve.</p>
<p>I also sincerely doubt the framers of the constitution supported anything remotely like the Federal Reserve.  I&#8217;m interested in getting my hands on as much reading material about the topic as I can, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Prince Roy</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76286</link>
		<dc:creator>Prince Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76286</guid>
		<description>And those who read the entire entry will understand that the Federal Reserve System is not a privatized monetary system, but one that is created by an act of Congress, its officers subject to confirmation by Congress, required to report to Congress.

In other words, Congress has duly delegated to the Federal Reserve System the authority to regulate the value of money as stipulated in Article One, Section 8, and the Congress retains authority over the Federal Reserve System.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And those who read the entire entry will understand that the Federal Reserve System is not a privatized monetary system, but one that is created by an act of Congress, its officers subject to confirmation by Congress, required to report to Congress.</p>
<p>In other words, Congress has duly delegated to the Federal Reserve System the authority to regulate the value of money as stipulated in Article One, Section 8, and the Congress retains authority over the Federal Reserve System.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76284</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76284</guid>
		<description>Here's the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve#Legal_status_and_position_in_government" rel="nofollow"&gt;exact text from Wiki&lt;/a&gt; for those who haven't read it:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;The Federal Reserve Banks are owned by private member banks (see below)&lt;/b&gt;. Each member bank owns nonnegotiable shares of stock in its regional Federal Reserve Bank; see below). In Lewis v. United States,[18] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that "the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." The opinion also stated that "the Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes."[19] Another decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City[20] in which the distinction between the Federal Reserve Banks and the Board of Governors is made.

&lt;b&gt;The member banks are privately owned corporations. The stocks of many of the member banks are publicly traded&lt;/b&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The goal of any company corporation is to maximize profits.  To assume that their goals align with the greater good of the people is a bit unrealistic.  To assume they set aside their own goals for the good of the people is naive.  In most markets, this isn't a large problem, since there is competition.  Putting our monetary policy under the control of a few privileged private entities, on the other hand, is disturbing, as is the fed's opacity.  

Yes, Congress &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; force the information out of them or eliminate them, if push came to shove, but that would take a pretty big shove. Thus far, they haven't even been capable of getting information out of a hugely unpopular vice president, or stopping the war they were voted in to end.  Taken to its logical conclusion, Congress &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; legislate away pretty anything they wanted to.  I don't see it happening anytime soon, but we can hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve#Legal_status_and_position_in_government" rel="nofollow">exact text from Wiki</a> for those who haven&#8217;t read it:</p>
<blockquote><p><b>The Federal Reserve Banks are owned by private member banks (see below)</b>. Each member bank owns nonnegotiable shares of stock in its regional Federal Reserve Bank; see below). In Lewis v. United States,[18] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that &#8220;the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.&#8221; The opinion also stated that &#8220;the Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes.&#8221;[19] Another decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City[20] in which the distinction between the Federal Reserve Banks and the Board of Governors is made.</p>
<p><b>The member banks are privately owned corporations. The stocks of many of the member banks are publicly traded</b>.</p></blockquote>
<p>The goal of any company corporation is to maximize profits.  To assume that their goals align with the greater good of the people is a bit unrealistic.  To assume they set aside their own goals for the good of the people is naive.  In most markets, this isn&#8217;t a large problem, since there is competition.  Putting our monetary policy under the control of a few privileged private entities, on the other hand, is disturbing, as is the fed&#8217;s opacity.  </p>
<p>Yes, Congress <i>could</i> force the information out of them or eliminate them, if push came to shove, but that would take a pretty big shove. Thus far, they haven&#8217;t even been capable of getting information out of a hugely unpopular vice president, or stopping the war they were voted in to end.  Taken to its logical conclusion, Congress <i>could</i> legislate away pretty anything they wanted to.  I don&#8217;t see it happening anytime soon, but we can hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Prince Roy</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76283</link>
		<dc:creator>Prince Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76283</guid>
		<description>Also, the Senate must confirm all members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.  Congress could legislate the Fed out of existence if it wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, the Senate must confirm all members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.  Congress could legislate the Fed out of existence if it wanted to.</p>
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		<title>By: Prince Roy</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76282</link>
		<dc:creator>Prince Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76282</guid>
		<description>Mark,

if push came to shove, the Fed wold have to bow before Congress, it's that simple.  Like I wrote before, one can argue that Congress doesn't oversee the Fed closely enough, but that is a far cry from saying the Fed is unconstitutional.

Ron Paul shows a lack of understanding if he describes the Fed as a 'fiat' privatized monetary system.  As Trevelyan has pointed out, it is a creature of Congress and exists solely at the pleasure of Congress.  It is constitutional, full stop.  Jefferson and Madison were arguing about something different entirely.

Paul's argument is as nutty as those who say the income tax is unconstitutional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>if push came to shove, the Fed wold have to bow before Congress, it&#8217;s that simple.  Like I wrote before, one can argue that Congress doesn&#8217;t oversee the Fed closely enough, but that is a far cry from saying the Fed is unconstitutional.</p>
<p>Ron Paul shows a lack of understanding if he describes the Fed as a &#8216;fiat&#8217; privatized monetary system.  As Trevelyan has pointed out, it is a creature of Congress and exists solely at the pleasure of Congress.  It is constitutional, full stop.  Jefferson and Madison were arguing about something different entirely.</p>
<p>Paul&#8217;s argument is as nutty as those who say the income tax is unconstitutional.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76055</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76055</guid>
		<description>Check out the wikipedia link above.  Many have complained about a lack of transparency, even members of congress.  In the past the Federal Reserve has outright refused request for information from Congress, and even illegally ignored requests made under the &lt;i&gt;Freedom of Information Act&lt;/i&gt;.  More recently, the fed has stopped sharing M3 statistics with Congress.  As for ownership, the same article will verify that while the fed was created by congress, it is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; a purely public entity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out the wikipedia link above.  Many have complained about a lack of transparency, even members of congress.  In the past the Federal Reserve has outright refused request for information from Congress, and even illegally ignored requests made under the <i>Freedom of Information Act</i>.  More recently, the fed has stopped sharing M3 statistics with Congress.  As for ownership, the same article will verify that while the fed was created by congress, it is <i>not</i> a purely public entity.</p>
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		<title>By: trevelyan</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76045</link>
		<dc:creator>trevelyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76045</guid>
		<description>The Federal Reserve is not privately owned, Mark. It's a public institution established by an act of Congress and it exists at the whim of Congress.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

You're joking about the lack of transparency? The exact timing of interest rate changes is determined by the board, but everyone knows which way the wind is blowing. The institution is about as transparent as they come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Federal Reserve is not privately owned, Mark. It&#8217;s a public institution established by an act of Congress and it exists at the whim of Congress.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm</a></p>
<p>You&#8217;re joking about the lack of transparency? The exact timing of interest rate changes is determined by the board, but everyone knows which way the wind is blowing. The institution is about as transparent as they come.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76034</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76034</guid>
		<description>Exactly.  The constitution clearly spells out that their statist position towards currency, in contrast to a privately owned Federal Reserve.  More concerning is its &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve#Opacity" rel="nofollow"&gt;opacity&lt;/a&gt;.  Considering how much influence the Fed wields, it's there are quite a few reasons to be concerned by the fact that the self interest of the banks is not necessarily the same as that of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.  The constitution clearly spells out that their statist position towards currency, in contrast to a privately owned Federal Reserve.  More concerning is its <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve#Opacity" rel="nofollow">opacity</a>.  Considering how much influence the Fed wields, it&#8217;s there are quite a few reasons to be concerned by the fact that the self interest of the banks is not necessarily the same as that of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: trevelyan</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/aaron-russo-and-ron-paul-on-the-federal-reserve/#comment-76022</link>
		<dc:creator>trevelyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don't believe either Jefferson or Madison had a clue about the trade-offs between pegged and floating exchange rates, but its worth mentioning nonetheless that they are both making statist arguments that governments should control their own currencies, rather than leaving them under the control of private parties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe either Jefferson or Madison had a clue about the trade-offs between pegged and floating exchange rates, but its worth mentioning nonetheless that they are both making statist arguments that governments should control their own currencies, rather than leaving them under the control of private parties.</p>
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