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	<title>Comments on: Chinese Character Simplification</title>
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	<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/</link>
	<description>Chinese, Linguistics, Science, Cultural Observations and whatever else I feel like writing about</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Taipei Times: Studying in Taiwan &#124; Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-21645</link>
		<dc:creator>Taipei Times: Studying in Taiwan &#124; Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-21645</guid>
		<description>[...] Post: Chinese Character Simplification Related Post: Taipei Times Insanity Continues Related Post: A Test Nobody Wants Tags: China, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Post: Chinese Character Simplification Related Post: Taipei Times Insanity Continues Related Post: A Test Nobody Wants Tags: China, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Taipei Times Insanity Continues &#124; Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-21644</link>
		<dc:creator>Taipei Times Insanity Continues &#124; Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-21644</guid>
		<description>[...] Post: A Test Nobody Wants Related Post: Chinese Character Simplification Tags: Chinese, education, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Post: A Test Nobody Wants Related Post: Chinese Character Simplification Tags: Chinese, education, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Test Nobody Wants &#124; Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-21643</link>
		<dc:creator>A Test Nobody Wants &#124; Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-21643</guid>
		<description>[...] Post: Chinese Character Simplification Related Post: Taipei Times Insanity Continues  Tags: Chinese, culture, Language Learning, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Post: Chinese Character Simplification Related Post: Taipei Times Insanity Continues  Tags: Chinese, culture, Language Learning, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Prince Roy&#8217;s Realm &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Simplified Characters: A Dumbing Down?</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20952</link>
		<dc:creator>Prince Roy&#8217;s Realm &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Simplified Characters: A Dumbing Down?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20952</guid>
		<description>[...] advantage in literacy. A few blogs have recently discussed this: Sinoplice (actually the comments), Doubting to shuo, and Pinyin News to name a few. I don&#8217;t believe either system confers a meaningful [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] advantage in literacy. A few blogs have recently discussed this: Sinoplice (actually the comments), Doubting to shuo, and Pinyin News to name a few. I don&#8217;t believe either system confers a meaningful [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20332</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20332</guid>
		<description>Tim, I wrote 98% of &lt;i&gt;Mandarin&lt;/i&gt; speakers.  I realize that a sizable number of older people here, on the mainland, in Singapore, and in HK don't speak "standard Chinese", as Xinhua put it.

I'm not completely sure if I understand your question about whether if simplification "works".  If you're asking whether if people can learn to read or write it, the answer is yes.  China has maintained an economic growth rate of about 10% per year for &lt;i&gt;twenty-five years&lt;/i&gt;, and in the process surpassed previously richer neighbors such as India, in both wealth and literacy.  I really don't see the what relevance Taiwan's literacy rate has to character simplification, though.  Taiwan was developed extensively by the Japanese before WWII. Furthermore, it has been receiving support and trade from the US for decades that mainland China has had little access to until recently.  It's not a very fair comparison.

I realize that literacy statistics are controversial, but according to the &lt;i&gt;CIA World Factbook&lt;/i&gt; you cited, China's literacy rate is &lt;a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;90.9%&lt;/a&gt;.  In comparison, India's is &lt;a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;59.5%&lt;/a&gt;. Brazil, a large country that has a significantly higher per capita GDP than China does, has a listed literacy rate of &lt;a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/br.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;86.4%&lt;/a&gt;.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I wrote 98% of <i>Mandarin</i> speakers.  I realize that a sizable number of older people here, on the mainland, in Singapore, and in HK don&#8217;t speak &#8220;standard Chinese&#8221;, as Xinhua put it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not completely sure if I understand your question about whether if simplification &#8220;works&#8221;.  If you&#8217;re asking whether if people can learn to read or write it, the answer is yes.  China has maintained an economic growth rate of about 10% per year for <i>twenty-five years</i>, and in the process surpassed previously richer neighbors such as India, in both wealth and literacy.  I really don&#8217;t see the what relevance Taiwan&#8217;s literacy rate has to character simplification, though.  Taiwan was developed extensively by the Japanese before WWII. Furthermore, it has been receiving support and trade from the US for decades that mainland China has had little access to until recently.  It&#8217;s not a very fair comparison.</p>
<p>I realize that literacy statistics are controversial, but according to the <i>CIA World Factbook</i> you cited, China&#8217;s literacy rate is <a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">90.9%</a>.  In comparison, India&#8217;s is <a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">59.5%</a>. Brazil, a large country that has a significantly higher per capita GDP than China does, has a listed literacy rate of <a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/br.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">86.4%</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Maddog</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20326</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Maddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20326</guid>
		<description>Does &lt;a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-09/05/content_5050463.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; ("40% of Chinese cannot speak putonghua") change those numbers a bit (or at least the numbers people might derive from your "98%" figure)? Here's a quote from within:

&lt;blockquote&gt;[...] although progress has been made in recent years because of government popularization efforts, &lt;b&gt;"at least 40 percent of Chinese are still unable to speak standard Chinese."&lt;/b&gt;

    He said people who cannot speak putonghua are mainly those with "little education," or &lt;b&gt;"the illiterate,"&lt;/b&gt; and most of them are rural residents.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That comes from Xinhua, so those numbers are certainly lower than the harsh reality.

Does simplification work? &lt;a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tw.html#People" rel="nofollow"&gt;The CIA Factbook&lt;/a&gt; says the literacy rate in Taiwan is 96.1% (2003 figure). Read more about Xinhua and Chinese literacy (or lack thereof) &lt;a href="http://pinyin.info/news/2006/chinese-literacy/" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does <a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-09/05/content_5050463.htm" rel="nofollow">this article</a> (&#8221;40% of Chinese cannot speak putonghua&#8221;) change those numbers a bit (or at least the numbers people might derive from your &#8220;98%&#8221; figure)? Here&#8217;s a quote from within:</p>
<blockquote><p>[...] although progress has been made in recent years because of government popularization efforts, <b>&#8220;at least 40 percent of Chinese are still unable to speak standard Chinese.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>    He said people who cannot speak putonghua are mainly those with &#8220;little education,&#8221; or <b>&#8220;the illiterate,&#8221;</b> and most of them are rural residents.
</p></blockquote>
<p>That comes from Xinhua, so those numbers are certainly lower than the harsh reality.</p>
<p>Does simplification work? <a href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tw.html#People" rel="nofollow">The CIA Factbook</a> says the literacy rate in Taiwan is 96.1% (2003 figure). Read more about Xinhua and Chinese literacy (or lack thereof) <a href="http://pinyin.info/news/2006/chinese-literacy/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: David Reid</title>
		<link>http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20252</link>
		<dc:creator>David Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-character-simplification/#comment-20252</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, Mark. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. I prefer traditional, but I guess it is just what I am used to. 

There are some cases where the traditional form is easier to remember or more meaningful than the simplified. I think some of the simplifications were poorly chosen. A more ideal character set would be somewhere in the middle. Two systems is enough already though. I don't want to suggest the creation of a third simplified/traditional character system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Mark. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. I prefer traditional, but I guess it is just what I am used to. </p>
<p>There are some cases where the traditional form is easier to remember or more meaningful than the simplified. I think some of the simplifications were poorly chosen. A more ideal character set would be somewhere in the middle. Two systems is enough already though. I don&#8217;t want to suggest the creation of a third simplified/traditional character system.</p>
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