The Debit Card Dilemma
December 7th, 2007 by MarkThis web site may be near its end. My US bank was recently bought out by ING Direct, they closed the accounts of all their customers living abroad. That leaves me without a debit card. Unfortunately, even after living in Taiwan for five years, I still haven’t found a local bank willing to give me one. I made a very exhaustive search in 2003, and then again in 2005 and came up with no success. Automatic refusal of all foreigners, including long term residents seems to be the norm.
I asked my current banks again. Taishin and Huanan refused me outright, while Fubon gave me a card specially crippled for foreigners, to prevent us from buying things online. I don’t really have the energy to check with a dozen banks again, especially since all evidence points to them being just as discriminatory as they were two years ago. Maybe I’ll look for a US bank that will serve international customers, but it will take a while.
For now, no debit card means no way to buy books online, no way to buy Skype credit, no way to order stuff, and most significantly, no way to pay for my web hosting. I’m not quite sure when Dreamhost will try to charge me for this month, but when they do, the site will go down. The same goes for everyone else I’ve been sharing hosting with. Such is life.
Related Posts:
No Debit Card for Round-eye
Denied Banking (frostfox.com)
First Full Day in Shanghai
Update: If you’re a foreigner and want to be able to get a debit card, try calling the government help number at 0800-024-111 and telling them so. They were the ones who ended up helping me find a way for a couple of my friends here to get phone lines (without a local to sign for them), but when I asked about debit cards, they said that it wasn’t an issue for many foreigners.
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December 7th, 2007 at 1:19 am
I’ve had the same dilemma since I got here. In the US, 95% of my non-cash purchases were made with my Visa check card, so Taiwan’s anachronistic banking system really threw me off. Now, I’ve got two local debit cards in my wallet (one from Hua Nan, one from Mega [formerly ICBC]), but have the same problem - no way to use them on websites outside of Taiwan. I work around it by ordering things from local sites like 7-11’s online store, but mostly just suffer without a reasonable means of making purchases. If it’s important, I have to resort to borrowing a friend’s card and paying cash directly to them. I haven’t had the time or energy to go back to the banks and wrangle with them over letting me use them online. If you find a solution, let me know!
By the way, you should be able to buy Skype credit locally. Last I knew, they sold it at Family Mart, same as how they sell regular pre-paid cards.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:37 am
That blows. Listen, I have a local credit card from Citibank, which i have had for 5 years. It may be because I am married? I can check.
As for payments of things, if you want to transfer money to my account after I pay for whatever it is you want, I’d be willing to do this if it is possible and if you want. You have been more than generous in sharing your hosting and patient help in all things webical so this is the least I can do.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:27 am
You could open a Paypal account. They are very easy to set up and use. I know Skype accepts payment via Paypal. Not sure about Dreamhost.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:14 am
There are many threads about this on Forumosa.com. Maybe you could find a solution there; it seems from reading there that many foreigners have been able to get credit cards here.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Also, couldn’t you get another US credit card?
December 7th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
I have had trouble getting debit cards in Taiwan, China and in Hong Kong. I have now just decided to get a regular Visa card. Standard Chartered will allow me to pay my visa through autopay. This means that even though I am buying on credit, the amount will be deducted from my account before interest accrues. It is a imperfect solution, but it should work about the same way as long as I have money in my bank account and as long as nothing happens to stop the autopay.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Paogao, I started those threads on Forumosa. I’m well aware of them, and I checked them again this week.
Getting another bank account in the US is the long term solution (as long as Taiwan’s banking services remain at 3rd world standards). However, it’s not that easy for Americans living abroad to get bank accounts these days. ING Direct terminated my account for having a foreign address, and my family’s bank, Bank One, refused me as well.
The most promising option at this point is the Wells Fargo international personal banking division. Since they require 23 pages of forms signed and notorized as well as letters of introduction from my Taiwanese banks, it won’t be a fast process. These things haven’t been so convenient since 9/11.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
David, I opened a Paypal account, but I need a credit card or debit card to fund it!
December 7th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Hey if you want, I’ll host you. Contact me.
December 8th, 2007 at 2:00 am
I would say it is the US that has instituted the “third world” banking standards by canceling “foreign accounts”. If you ask Canadians or other Europeans, I’m sure they’ll have no such issues.
December 8th, 2007 at 5:53 am
Eric, I’m Canadian, and I went to college in the states. I had no banking problems there at all but in Taiwan it really is third world banking.
It comes down to this: foreigners in the US can get SS numbers easily, but in Taiwan you don’t get a shenfenzheng even if you’re here a decade. Former Soviet republics are more open.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Be careful though with using US banks to get a new debit card. I thought I had a sweet deal using my Bank of America debit card. It was so convenient, as was their online banking. Then I found out that they were deducting from EVERY transaction conducted internationally three percent. NO, not a fixed fee, a percentage. I found this out after buying a $600 plane ticket online and noticing that about $20 more went to Bank of America just for sitting there and looking pretty. They don’t charge this way for domestic transactions. Kind of takes the joy out of using your debit card.
December 8th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Thomas, that’s similar to what happened to me in the old days when I had a card from Bank One that I got in the states before I left. I don’t remember ever getting hit for using it online, but any international ATM use entailed both a $5 fee and an exchange rate so terrible that it amounted to another 3% of the total.
It was annoying, but for my purposes that sort of card would be fine. Pretty much everything I buy online would come from US companies, such as Amazon.com, Dreamhost, or whatever computer companies I find through pricewatch. At this point, I’d take a working debit card from just about anywhere.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
now see, it’s things like this that Taiwanese politicos should really be addressing rather than stupid shit like which four words appear on the 正門兒 at Democracy Park aka CKS Memorial.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
While they’re at it they can tell the phone company and the cell companies to let us get service.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:38 am
Eric said:
You’re mistaken. It’s not that the entire US has started canceling foreign accounts. What happened was that my bank was bought out by ING Direct, and they don’t serve international customers. They do offer services to foreigners if they’re legal residents of the US, though.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Don’t you have someone in the US whose address you could use for banking purposes? The bank doesn’t need to know that you reside abroad. It is a good idea to maintain some open accounts in the US while abroad so that you will have some credit history if you ever decide to move back. Open another account in the US if you can’t get that one reinstated.
December 11th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Principal, if I could easily open another account, or “reinstate” the one of a bankrupt company, this would have been a very different post.
Banks do telephone checks to verify the residence of new customers these days. I did have a US address listed three years ago, but it ended up causing problems when I wanted to have things I bought online shipped here when my address was there. I’m sure there’s would be a way around the regulations if I got people in the US to receive the calls and lie for me, but I’d rather do things above the board.
January 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
The wai shang banks will give you whatever you want as long as you have an ARC, some cash assets and proof of salary. The general rule is NT$300,000 or more deposited for 6 months. Since I was a new customer Citibank let me bypass the 6 month part by depositing NT$300,000 into my foreign currency account and providing a $50,000 deposit for 6 months (I did earn interest on the deposit).
Yes, it may seem maddening that you need this for a debit card but the problem isn’t isolated to Taiwan. I’m British and I can’t even get a Visa debit card with a UK bank because I lived abroad too long and my credit isn’t good enough!
In Taiwan the requirements for a credit or debit card are exactly the same, so if you’re going to go through the hassle you might as well just get a credit card and pay it off every month.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Llary, the rules are actually a bit different for debit cards vs. credit cards. To the best of my knowledge, no banks allow debit cards for foreigners at all (though I do know one person who managed to slip through the cracks), whereas credit cards are just difficult to get and require a guarantor. Back when I was in the US, I lived in the international dorm and I helped half a dozen Japanese buddies open bank accounts and get debit cards. It was really pretty straight forward. One of my buddies did the same in the UK as a grad student, too. To the best of my knowledge, this part of the world is particularly rough on foreigners doing banking.
Did you actually get a debit card from citybank? If so, which branch did you get it from? I’m probably not going to have $300,000 NT for quite a while, but it would be good to know for reference.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I have a Visa credit card from Citibank and an ex-debit card from Taipei Fubon - the requirements for both were the same. I closed the Taipei Fubon account over a service issue (I don’t think I ever used the card anyway). I know someone else with a Visa debit card in their own name from Taipei Fubon too. It was a bit of hassle but to be fair they were quite helpful and eventually gave me twice the credit limit that any card issuer has ever given me in my native country.
Citibank’s staff in Taichung admitted that they didn’t know anything about debit cards but said that anything they offered I was welcome to.
Like I said, I know it can seem unfair or a pain but this kind of Visa debit card still carries some risk to the issuing bank and I can understand them covering their backs. Also bear in mind how much your average Taiwanese saves - NT$300k savings is nothing to a Taiwanese bank and they will feel uncomfortable going beyond a basic checking account without this as a bare minimum.
Just my NT$2 on the situation.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Llary, I also have the Fubon Visa “debit card” you mentioned above. It’s just an ATM card, though. You can’t use it online. China Trust and Taishin do issue real debit cards, but not to foreigners (even with a guarantor).
I can’t subscribe to that point of view. Do Taiwanese customers have to have $300,000NT in their accounts to get cards? Of course not.
Risks in issuing debit cards are so minimal that banks around the world will issue them without a credit check. I’ve never heard of even one Taiwanese person being refused a debit card by either of the major two issuing banks (China Trust or Fubon). In fact, I personally know jobless 20 year olds who have them.
This is discrimination plain and simple.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has lived and done business in many western countries, Taiwan is one of the easier places for a foreign citizen to obtain financial products. The US was the worst - US$1,000 deposit for a contract cellphone, no credit card unless I was a permanent resident, etc. I’m a UK citizen and I can’t even open an account in the UK now because I don’t have any credit history. I just honestly don’t see the difference with Taiwanese banks requiring proof of assets to supply a financial product.
My Taiwanese gf has a Visa debit card that doesn’t work abroad. I assume the bank needs an explicit request to open up online/foreign transactions but we’ve never bothered asking. If your Taipei Fubon card doesn’t bear the Visa logo then it’s not a Visa debit card and not the same card as my friend or I had.
It’s not really discrimination - it’s just a business decision. The problem more than anything is that most banking staff don’t know a whole lot about debit cards and will just say no rather than look into it.
As a last resort you could always just buy a prepaid Visa/Mastercard credit card. Google ‘prepaid credit card’.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:19 am
That comment really does have to be addressed.
That’s quite a claim. I helped more than one Japanese student in my dorm get debit cards in the US while in college. It was very straight-forward. As for contract cellphones, they aren’t available to foreign residents in Taiwan, including permanent ones, even with $1,000 down. You have to have a Taiwanese citizen sign for you.
Odd. One of my Japanese friends mentioned above opened an account his first week in the UK as a grad student. He has a debit card through his bank as well. I can give you details about the bank, if you like.
As I said in the comment above, it is a Visa card. However, Fubon’s cards aren’t true debit cards in the sense of the word in English. They can be used at local ATMs and stores (so long as they don’t required embossed numbers on the cards), but not online. China Trust and Taishin are the primary banks in the debit card business here.
Bullshit. I have a copy of China Trust’s printed regulations right here, and they specifically prohibit foreigners. Debit cards aren’t exactly rare here, either. Millions of Taiwanese people have debit cards, and it’s been that way for years.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Yours is ‘quite a claim’ too. Perhaps you can explain why after receiving my first ARC I walked into China Telecom then walked out 30 minutes later with a contract cellphone in my name with no deposit. I also have a Taiwan DaGeDa contract in my name which did require a deposit.
Student accounts work differently from normal accounts in the UK. As long as you have proof of student status anyone can get a student account. The UK is pretty good to students in that sense.
I’m not here to defend Taiwan or its banking system but I hear so many false statements thrown around like ‘foreigners can’t get credit cards, foreigners can’t get contract phones, foreigners can’t buy houses, foreigners can’t set up business’.
Just because YOU can’t get a debit card/credit card/contract phone doesn’t mean there’s a ban on foreigners, just like the how I understand there is no blanket ban in the UK/US. FWIW my gf works for Chinatrust and since the big default craze they’re currently rejecting something like 80% of all credit card applications.
I personally think the way Taiwanese banks handle debit cards in general is incompetent but I wouldn’t get caught up in it being some kind of discrimination. If you have a student ARC that probably hurts any application more than nationality.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
When I was in search of one 3.5 years ago, I went to several places, and all but DaGeDa showed me blanket no foreigner rules, and DaGeDa required a guarantor. I also asked dozens of foreigners their experiences and they were pretty similar to mine. I hear that cellphone companies have relaxed their rules quite a bit recently, though.
I don’t think the credit card issuing policies are fair, but I can accept that there are some valid concerns issuing them to people with no local credit histories.
Debit cards are different, though. The risk of issuing debit cards is minimal and China Trust gives them to non-foreign account holders as a matter of course. And they reject foreigners by policy (I’ll put up a screen shot of their regulation book for you). How is that not discrimination? What would be discrimanation in your opinion?
January 11th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
The only places that will not give you a phone account are those small offshoot/franchise offices, simply because they don’t know how. Any main branch of China Telecom, Taiwan Mobile etc. will give you what you want.
Discrimination in my eyes is refusing access to a public service based on race or disability. Wheelchair users are way more discriminated against in this country than us whiteys. Financial products - whether you think they carry any risk or not - are simply about business between you and the provider. I got grief when trying to open accounts with various local banks so I just took my business to a Wai Shang bank (Citibank). Chinatrust is an awful bank BTW.
Foreigners can have credit cards, loans, fen qi, mortgages, housing, driving licenses, phones, healthcare; apart from voting I can’t think of a whole lot I can’t do. I understand and accept that there will always be a stricter burden of proof for foreign applicants in any country. If I was to complain about anything it would be the splitting of ID numbers into Taiwanese and non-citizen because most systems don’t like my AAnnnnnnnn ID number.
I know it’s hard to understand but I used to work with electronic banking systems and Visa/MC debit cards DO carry a risk of offline spending and subsequent default. I have to say in general I’m pretty happy about the banking service I get as a foreigner in Taiwan and to be honest I don’t really care about debit cards. Sorry.
January 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
I never said they discriminated racially. I said that their policies discriminate against foreigners, and I doubt anyone could make a reasonable argument otherwise.
Try to ignore the fact as you may, but nearly any Taiwanese person can get a debit card at China Trust or Taishin. I earn a steady income and I have zero debt. It’s entirely a matter of policies that discriminate against foreigners. Claiming otherwise is ridiculous.
I understand that for someone like you who can afford to drop $10,000 USD into a savings account just to get a credit card, banking is convenient here. You could do your banking pretty easily in just about any country.
For the rest of us, though, it’s not so easy. Of course, you can’t be expected to be sympathetic, but dropping by to tell me how “fair” the banks are to foreigners is a bit distasteful.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Here is an article from the Taipei times:
Here is the beginning: Saturday, Dec 24, 2005, Page 1
Granted, that was 2 years ago, but perhaps many banks’ reticence to give cards to people whose ARC is only valid for one year is still in effect.
January 12th, 2008 at 1:21 am
While I’d happily take one if I could get one (your bank turned me down), this post wasn’t about credit cards.
FYI, I had a three year ARC.
January 12th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I’ll be sure to stay on topic next time.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Fubon’s regulations specifically state that foreigners’ debit cards aren’t to be used for international transactions:
http://www.taipeifubon.com.tw/html/oneMillion/visa_chip_card/cardapply961120.pdf
Here’s an excerpt from megacard:
http://www.megacard.com.tw/visadebit/visadebit_002.htm
January 13th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I have used this company before to send cards as gifts/incentives. They will FedEx cards anywhere in the world and it works out about $20 incl. shipping for the card that you can recharge in future with bank transfers. Just be wary of the ATM charges (online / swipe purchases are free).
https://www.ikobo.com/asia/money-transfer-Taiwan.html
If you’re not happy with this company there are thousands doing the same thing - google ‘international prepaid visa card’.
January 13th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I appreciate the attempt to help. I spent an hour or so on that site and talking with their customer support. Unfortunately, there are two things that make their service unusable for me.
1) It’s a gift service and I can’t send money to myself with it.
2) They still require a debit card or credit card to fund my account.
I don’t have the time right now to spend too much time looking pursuing similar likely dead ends. If anyone with modest savings has been able to get a card from their bank in Taiwan as a foreigner, I’ll give it a try. If I know which bank branch, what to sign up for, etc, I’ll free up some time from work and give it a try.
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:20 am
I was in the same dilemma. I’m an American residing in The Netherlands. I had checking and savings account with Netbank ever since before I moved to The Netherlands. When Ing Direct bought Netbank, I had to prove my u.s residency. I go back regularly to the state and I use my sister’s address as my permanent residence. I had to go through all the trouble of proving that that’s is my place of residence. They approved it and transfered my Netbank checking account into Ing Direct savings account. I tried to apply for their checking account, I was rejected because I don’t have credit score.
You can only transfer money out of the savings account into another local checking account. Since I don’t have a local checking account, I won’t be able to transfer money at all.
The best way to open a checking account in the U.S is to have a relative co-own the account. This way you can build up credit score through a debit visa card.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
same here, i live in taiwan for about 4 years now, but still it’s hard for me to purchase online since cc does’t seem to work for int purchase,but 2 months i found this http://www.epayarea.com/?affiliator_id=128019 and thx to them now have my own cc with my name on it and i can pay for my hosting and my fav online game yay =))
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