where are we headed?
September 21st, 2007 by MarkI really don’t know what words to put to these images I’ve been seeing over the last year. The videos speak for themselves.
This happened just this week at the John Kerry speech in Florida. The youtube poster is a bit of a sensationalist, but the MSNBC coverage is good.
I found this one on Amnesty International’s website:
This is possibly the worse of all… from UCLA at the end of last year:
Five times… after saying he had a medical condition.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:23 am
That’s typical American freedom and democracy that US is trying to impose on the whole world. Not only Iraqis can experience it but also students in American universities. They have options: either be shot by their classmate or be attacked by police. As long as they have options they should feel free living in liberty.
September 22nd, 2007 at 5:26 pm
[...] a reason to get angry? Still, America is hardly the only country with a long and dubious record of police [...]
September 22nd, 2007 at 5:27 pm
No, Vitaly, pull your head out your arse. Every country’s cops are guilty of gross abuse of power and illegal violence. Most police forces are little better than legal gangs.
Mark, I have American friends who have already fled to Canada in utter disgust at the way your country is going. If it makes you feel any better (and I doubt it will), yours is by no means the only country to have a problem with arrogant police abusing their authority.
September 22nd, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Chris, I’m not planning on fleeing to Canada. As I’ve written about before; Canada didn’t want me back when it had a chance of getting me
Things at home aren’t all bad. The US is still the best place in the world in a number of areas. It’s still a mostly free country, the colleges are second to none, our spending power is great, we have one of the most diverse and yet still cohesive populaces in the world.
But considering some of the changes that are happening, my conscience would balk at being completely apolitical now.
September 23rd, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Mark: Yeah, I see your point of view. I still see plenty of good in America and most Americans I’ve met are decent, principled people who are disturbed with the way American politics is heading. It disturbs me that I already know Americans who have fled to Canada, and it disturbs me that I all of a sudden am in no hurry to ever go to America- and that’s precisely because of things like the DHS, Patriot Act, and the Bush-Cheney disgrace of an administration. Honestly, before Bush, I would’ve considered visiting America. Now? We’ll see what happens after the next election.
So, mate, I guess for the time being you’re stuck in Taiwan trying to remind us non-Americans that there’s still a lot of good in your country while at the same time doing what you can to get that good back into politics. I don’t envy you your position. I have to say that for as long as Bush has been in office, I’ve been very grateful to have been born in a tiny little corner of the Pacific with a strong pacifist streak to its politics.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:56 am
I have this collection of tens of thousands of videos of police respecting the authority granted to them, upholding the law, and respecting not only the citizens, but all of their rights. I put of few up on YouTube, but no one watched them. I think it’s because everyone knows we’re headed straight for a police state.
And after the police state? We’ll probably end up in a huge, fire-proof hand basket big enough to hold 301,139,947 people.
Well, seriously, I do think that the police went too far. But since most people who see these videos will be of that opinion, I’d like to point out a few things:
o The student at the Kerry speech should never have been approached by police. However, trying to evade the police is a crime – even if the arrest is not warranted. The proper action is to obey the police and take the case before a court. Confronting the executive branch through the judicial branch is healthy checks and balances. Confronting the police in an auditorium is not healthy. But you have to hand it to him, he is reaching a much wider audience because of his antics (should I give him that much credit?). I believe a much smaller number of people would see the video if he left peacefully.
o People are not allowed to loiter, even during a protest. When I’ve taken part in a demonstration, we’ve had to keep moving. I think this is fair enough. You can keep walking around the block.
o It was difficult for me to tell from the second video, but if the police instructed people to keep off the street, that is totally legitimate. Impeding the flow of traffic is in violation of the law (or if I’m mistaken, at least it should be). If people refused, the police should take action (read the next point).
o Because of “group think” where individuals feel they have little or no responsibility for their actions, police need to take action for even small infractions during protests. Protests, by their nature, are emotionally charged events. The police have both the right and the responsibility to keep protests from escalating into riots. It is a delicate balance. Police get yelled at no matter which side of the fine line they land on.
o I’m not against tasers, but the police seemed handle the situation in the third video the worst. I have no idea whether that man deserved to be arrested, but I didn’t see or hear the police do anything right.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
I think tasers can be a good thing, when they’re used as a substitute for guns. However, the concept of using them as “pain compliance” devices against passive resistance, or using them as punishment on people who have already been restrained sickens me.
The guy at the Kerry speech was an obnoxious prick, and arresting him was more than reasonable. Tasing him after he’s already been subdued by five people, on the other hand, is barbaric.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
From what I saw, the guy at the Kerry speech only asked annoying questions and behaved like an obnoxious prick but didn’t break any laws. Why do you think it was reasonable for the police to arrest him? Do you think he was inciting a riot? Disturbing the peace? What law was broken?
Being obnoxious on an open mic shouldn’t be against the law, should it? If so, why? I can see the point if everyone has a time limit and he won’t step down without the help of the police.
I agree about tasers not being used for pain compliance. They should be reserved for situations when someone would be in danger if they weren’t used. Tasing the guy at the speech was totally uncalled for and the police should have to pay for their actions.
I do agree that the police went too far in each of the videos above. I wrote what I did because I feel some people jump on the bandwagon and take things too far in the other direction — meaning they’d argue the police had no place doing anything they did. For the record, I didn’t mean to imply that I think anyone who has commented here is in that category.
Sorry about the long post earlier! It didn’t look quite so long in my text editor.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
I don’t know the specifics involved, but this is my take:
It wasn’t his turn to speak. He charged the mic after they said Q&A time was over and grabbed the mic and started asking questions. Between that and not relinquishing the mic (which wasn’t his) at a public event, removing him was definitely part of their job. His reaction to that justified arresting him at least temporarily, just not tasing him.